LESTER HOLT: Mr. President, thank you for sitting down with us. There’s a lot to talk about. I’d like to start with the horrible events of last weekend that has shocked a lot of Americans. At a political rally your opponent, Donald Trump — shot — in the middle of greeting his — his supporters. You spoke to Mr. Trump afterward. Can you give me — a sense of that conversation?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Very cordial. I told him how concerned I was, and want to make sure I knew how he was actually doing. He sounded good. He said he was fine and he thanked me for calling him. I told him he was literally in the prayers of Jill and me, and I hope his whole family was weathering this.
LESTER HOLT: You were in — in Delaware when this happened. What was your first reaction?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: My first reaction was, “My God. This is” — look, there’s so much violence now and the way we talk about it. I mean, the whole notion that there is this — there’s — there’s no place at all for violence in politics in America. None. Zero. And — we’ve reached a point where it’s — it’s become too commonplace, not assassinations, but to talk about it.
For example, you know, the January 6th — you know, the attack on the Capitol, the — I — I — Lester, I got in this race early on in 2020 — for the 2020 race. I wasn’t gonna run again because I’d lost my son. I didn’t — you know? And — until I watched what happened in Charlottesville, Virginia.
Those folks coming out of the woods with torches, carrying swastikas, singing the same Nazi bile that was accompanied by this Ku Klux Klan and a young woman was killed. And — and it was a bystander. And — the president — then president was asked, “What do you think?” He said, “The very fine people on both sides.” Not fine people on both sides. No excuse. Zero.
LESTER HOLT: Well, let’s talk about the conversation this has started. And it’s really about language, what we say out loud and the consequences of those. You called your opponent an existential threat. On a call a week ago you said, “It’s time to put Trump in the bull’s-eye.” There’s some dispute about the — the context, but I think you appreciate that words matter —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I didn’t say cross-hairs. I was talking about focus on. Look, the truth of the matter was what I guess I was talking about at the time was there was very little focus on Trump’s — agenda.
LESTER HOLT: Yeah, the term was “bull’s-eye.”
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: It was — it was a mistake to use the word. I didn’t mean — I didn’t say “cross-hairs.” I meant “bull’s-eye” I meant focus on him. Focus on what he’s doing. Focus on — on his — on his policies. Focus on the number of lies he told in the debate.
Focus on — I mean, there’s — there’s a whole range of things. Look, I’m not the guy that said (CLEARS THROAT) I want to be a dictator on day one. I’m not the guy that refused to accept the outcome of the election. I’m not the guy who said that wouldn’t accept the outcome of this election automatically. You can’t only love your country when you win. And so the focus was on what he’s saying and, I mean, the idea.
LESTER HOLT: But have — have you s — taken a step back and done a little soul searching on things that you may have said that could incite — people who are not balanced?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, I — I don’t think — look, how do you talk about the threat to democracy, which is real, when a president says things like he says? Do you just not say anything ’cause it may incite somebody? Look, I — I — I — I have not engaged in that rhetoric.
Now, my — my — my opponent has engaged in that rhetoric. Talks about there’d be a bloodbath if he loses. Talking about how he’s gonna forgive all the — actually, I guess, suspend the sentences of all those who were arrested and sentenced to go to jail because of what happened on — in the Capitol. I’m not out there making fun of — like, re — remember the picture of Donald Trump when Nancy Pelosi’s husband was hit with the hammer, going — talking about — joking about it.
LESTER HOLT: This doesn’t sound like you’re — you’re — you’re turning down the heat, though. You — you’ve talked about the —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Oh, no, no, no, no. Look, what I’m turning down — we have to stop the whole notion that there are certain things that are contrary to our — our democracy that we’re for. The idea of saying that you — “I didn’t win the election” when every court in the land — every court in the land, 120 appeals said — and including this conservative Supreme Court said we won, the idea about having — a loyalty pledge from all the folks who are in the Republican MAGA — not all Republicans, the MAGA Republicans saying that, “No, we lost the election,” inflaming the people to say — I — you — I mean —
LESTER HOLT: So — so what — what — what can you and what will you do, at — at least things you can control, to lower down the temperature, the rhetoric out there?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Continue to talk about the things that matter to the American public. It matters whether or not you accept the outcome of elections. It matters whether or not you, for example, talk about how you’re gonna deal with the border instead of talking about people as being vermin and all — I mean, those things matter. That’s the kind of language that is inflammatory.
LESTER HOLT: Mr. President, you’ve been in politics a very long time, so let — let’s speak frankly. We’re all adults here. Has this shooting changed the trajectory of this race?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I don’t know. And you don’t know either.
LESTER HOLT: I don’t know, but — but —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No. No, I — I —
LESTER HOLT: Have you — it’s something you’ve given thought to?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN No. I — I’ve thought less about the trajectory of the case than two things. 1) What his health is, that that was secure, number one. And number 2) what happens from here on in terms of the kind of coverage that the president and vice president and — and former president and new vice president get in terms of — look, I’ve never seen a circumstance where you ride through certain rural areas of the country and people have signs there stand — big Trump signs with — m — middle — signs saying “F Biden” and the little kid standing there putting up his middle finger.
I mean, that’s the kind of stuff that is just inflammatory and a kind of viciousness. It’s a very different thing than — than saying, “Look, I really disagree with Trump’s — the way he takes care of taxes, the way he has — wants a $5 trillion tax cut for people who are making a lot of money next time around. Doesn’t focus on working-class people.”
LESTER HOLT: But those are policy issues. And — and we —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well —
LESTER HOLT: Our history is — is — a country that can thoroughly hash out those issues —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Right. And that’s — and you’ll notice, what did I talk about with him? The policy issues where he’s — where he’s dividing the country. The policy issues that relate to democracy.
LESTER HOLT: Ano — another question, if I can, about — Saturday. Of course, the — the former president was wounded. One of his supporters died. A couple more people were seriously injured. Was this a massive security failure?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I have had two meetings in the Situation Room with all the — all the intelligence communities, the FBI, Secret Service Center. And I’ve all — I’ve asked for a totally independent analysis. And we’ll see what happens when that — that comes back.
LESTER HOLT: Do you have — are you — are you — you have confidence in the Secret Service? Do you feel safe?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I feel safe with the Secret Service. But look, you saw the — what we did see was the Secret Service who responded risked their lives responding. They were ready to give their lives for the president. The question is should they have anticipated what happened. Should they have done what they needed to do to prevent this from happening? That’s the question that’s — that’s an open question.
LESTER HOLT: Is it acceptable that you have still not heard, at least publicly, from the Secret Service director?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Oh, I’ve heard from him. I — I’ve —
LESTER HOLT: But have you heard from her publicly?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Publicly. I’ve sat down in the Situation Room downstairs. The Secret Service, the FBI, the national security agencies, the Homeland Security, all the major elements. And there’s two pieces to this, too. And it’s — it’s not an excuse. It’s just an ordinary explanation. There’s a major piece of this related to domestic and local law enforcement. They play a large role. And so there’s a different comp — I’m not saying they weren’t competent either. I’m just saying it’s a complicated process. And what has changed, by the way, Lester, is (CLEARS THROAT) you me, I’m — I like to meet people. I like to walk out, shake hands, move, look at people in the eye, see what they’re thinking. It’s really curtailed that ability on my part and on everybody’s part. And so because there’s a heightened notion that when you say there’s nothing wrong with going to the Capitol, breaking in, threatening people, a couple cops dying, hanging — put — putting up a noose, a gallows for — done for the vice — the former vice president, and you — and some — somehow you — and then you say you’re gonna forgive people for that, you’re gonna pardon ’em, that that was just a normal response, that is not — I have my entire career voted against and railed against and moved against the idea of violence is never appropriate. Never, never, never, never, never in politics.
LESTER HOLT: All right. I want to ask you about some other developing news today if I can. Judge Cannon dismissed the documents case, as you may have heard, in Mar-a-Lago. Can I first get your reaction to that?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I’m not surprised. It comes from the immunity decision the Supreme Court — ruled on, and Clarence Thomas, in his dissent, said that independent prosecutors appointed by the attorney general aren’t legit. That’s the basis on which this judge moved to dismiss. And — but — I had an independent prosecutor look at me. They spent months on my — going through and I was totally cooperative. In and out of my house, there were — I don’t know the last time in there were, like, 10, 12 agents in my house for nine hours unaccompanied going through every single thing I had. That’s appropriate. And they looked at me and concluded I didn’t do a damn thing wrong. But my generic point is that it’s — well, the — the basis upon which the case was thrown out I find specious because I don’t agree with what Clarence Thomas’s dissent and/or the Supreme Court decision on immunity.
LESTER HOLT: In light of this decision, the delay in the Georgia case, the Supreme Court decision on immunity which you reference the former president has seen a series of legal wins recently. You’ve — you’ve actively campaigned on his legal woes. Can you do anything like that anymore?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Sure. I can talk about what I think is appropriate. What I think is appropriate. I think the Supreme Court made a terrible decision. I think (CLEARS THROAT) the justices that he appointed have in fact been the most conservative and I — I would argue, if you check — surveyed constitutional scholarship, it — they seem out of touch with what the founders intended.
LESTER HOLT: Before this violent turn of events over the weekend, the talk, as you know, was about you and your future, if you should stay in the race. Your allies, James Clyburn, Nancy Pelosi, have kind of put it out there that they’re waiting for your decision, giving you time to make your decision. What I hear from you is that you made your decision. Are you still comfortable in that decision? Has anything changed in the last several days?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No.
LESTER HOLT: What do you make of people like Nancy Pelosi, though, who seem to be of the opinion that there is a window for you to make this choice? What aren’t they getting?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Look — we knew this — this was gonna be a close race from the moment he announced. The idea that (CLEARS THROAT) we are in a situation where if you look at all the polling data, the polling data shows a lot of different things, but there’s no wide gap between us.
It’s essentially a toss-up race. And I think one of the arguments that get made, you have the most successful presidency of any president in modern history, maybe since Franklin Roosevelt. Passed more major legislation no one thought you could get done. Were able to put together a consensus. Were able to unite NATO. Were able to deal in f — foreign policy. Why don’t you just decide to rest on that — on those laurels? And the answer is because the job’s not finished.
LESTER HOLT: Do you feel like you’ve weathered the storm on — on this issue of whether you should be on the ticket or not?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Look, 14 million people voted for me to be the nominee in the Democratic Party, okay? I listen to them.
LESTER HOLT: In your last TV interview you were asked if you had watched the debate and your answer was, “I don’t think so, no.” Have you since seen it?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I’ve seen pieces of it. I’ve not watched the whole debate.
LESTER HOLT: And — and the reason I ask, because I guess the question is are you all on the same page as to where — are you seeing what they saw, which was moments of, frankly, it — it appeared to be you — you appeared to be confused.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Lester, look, why don’t you guys ever talk about the 18 — the 28 lies he told? Where — where are you on this? Why doesn’t the press ever talk about that? Twenty-eight times, it’s confirmed, he lied in that debate. I had a bad, bad night. I wasn’t feeling well at all. And — and I had been — without making — I screwed up. But —
LESTER HOLT: The re — I just ask the question because — the — the idea that you may or may not have seen what some of these other folks have seen. You’re not on the same —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I didn’t have to see it — I was there. (LAUGH) I didn’t have to see it. I was there. And by the way, seriously, you won’t answer the question, but why doesn’t the press talk about all the lies he told? I haven’t heard —
LESTER HOLT: Well, we —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: — anything about that.
LESTER HOLT: We — we have reported many of the issues that came of that —
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No you haven’t —
LESTER HOLT: — that debate.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No you haven’t.
LESTER HOLT: Well, we’ll provide you with them.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: God love you.
LESTER HOLT: Okay. (LAUGH) President O — Obama put out a statement after the debate, but should he and Michelle Obama be doing more to express their confidence in you?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No, they — they’re helping me. They’ve helped me from the beginning. This is my job to get this done.
LESTER HOLT: Have you talked to him recently about this?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I haven’t talked to him in a couple weeks.
LESTER HOLT: Have you — have you talked to him since this issue came to light, since the debate?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I don’t think — I may have. I don’t think so.
LESTER HOLT: Who do you listen to on deeply personal issues like the decisions whether to stay in the race or not?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Me. Look, I’ve been doing this a long time. The idea that I’m the old guy, I am. I’m old. But I’m only three years older than Trump, number one. And number two, my mental acuity’s been pretty damn good. I’ve gotten more done than any president has in a long, long time in three and a half years. So I’m willing to be judged on that. I understand. I understand why people say, “God, he’s 81 years old. Whoa. What’s he gonna be when he’s 83 years old, or 84 years?” It’s a legitimate question to ask.
LESTER HOLT: Wanna ask you about — just shortly before you and I sat down, former President Trump named his vice presidential pick, JD Vance. What does that tell you — his qualities, what does that tell you about — former President Trump’s values in — in terms of who he will surround himself with in the next administration should he win?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, it’s not unusual. He’s gonna surround himself with people who agree completely with him, have a voting record, that support him. Even though if you go back and look at some of the things that JD Vance said about Trump. (LAUGH)
LESTER HOLT: Well, he said some things about you, yeah.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, that — he says some things about me, but see what he said about Trump. What’s with you guys? Come on, man. Look, the point I’m making is that JD Vance has — has adopted the same policies. No exceptions on abortion, making sure that he supports — a new $5 trillion tax cut that Trump wants to give in the next administration, signing on to the whole notion of whether or not we’re gonna — there’s — he says there’s no climate change that’s happening. I mean, he signed on to the — to the Trump agenda, which he should if he’s running with Trump.
LESTER HOLT: Mr. Trump has said he’s giving you a chance to redeem yourself, basically the idea of engaging in another debate.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: We were gonna have another debate.
LESTER HOLT: Yeah, you’re gonna have one in September that’s on the books. Would you be open to doing one in, you know, the next few weeks?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I’m gonna debate him when we agreed to debate. And I agreed to debate him in September.
LESTER HOLT: But if — if the opportunity came up to do one between now and then? Is there — is there a sense of wanting to get back on the horse?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I’m on the horse. Where have you been? I’ve done 22 major events, met thousands of people, overwhelming crowds. A lot’s happening. I’m on the horse. What I’m doing is going out and demonstrating to the American people that I have command of all my faculties, that I don’t need — notes. I don’t need telepro — I can go out and answer any questions at all. And I stood there when — when NATO was in town. I stood there for an hour and answered questions.
LESTER HOLT: If you were to have — continue to run and — and be officially nominated, what happens if you have another episode like we saw during the debate?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: What happened INAUDIBLE?
LESTER HOLT: Yeah, what hap — what happens if — if you have another performance on that par — on that level?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I don’t plan on having another performance on that level.
LESTER HOLT: All right. Mr. President, it’s always good to talk to you. Good to see you. Thank you for making some time for us.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Sometimes come and talk to me about what we should be talking about.
LESTER HOLT: All right.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Okay? The issues.
LESTER HOLT: Always happy to talk.
* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *
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#Read #full #Biden #interview #Lester #Holt #NBC #News